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Author Topic: The Discussion Thread.  (Read 34744 times)
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Rico



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« on: March 22, 2006, 12:10:57 PM »

Aight, to avoid further hijacking of the "V for Vendetta" thread, I'm starting up this bad boy.  Now if you notice the name at the top, it's the DISCUSSION thread.  Not the BE A TOOL AND PREACH YOUR IDIOTIC BELIEFS thread.  That means this thing is here for discussion and to gain a better understanding of those with opposing viewpoints.

I'm interested in trying to actually talk to a couple people about why they think what they do, and how they defend that stance.  For example, I don't see how anyone could possibly think that homosexuality is wrong.  I'd like to hear how you rationalize this.  I see similarities between the way gays are being treated now, and the way several ethnic groups have been treated in the past (and the present).  If you don't think that gay couple should be able to marry, why should an interracial couple be able to?

Once again, I'm not interested in hearing anyone preach.  This applies to everyone in this thread, including myself.  If you ever get riled up enough to post something stupid, take a minute to cool down before making an ass of yourself.

That said, would anyone like to join in?


- Rico

ADMIN. EDIT: I just had to put that in bold, yes, it was that much of a good point.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2006, 03:12:35 PM by ObiJuan2080 » Logged

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Mrdodobird

« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2006, 02:41:55 PM »

I'd love to!

I thought I was gay once... turns out I was just really bad with the ladies.

Hehe- eh.

My personal view on it is, really, why not? The only reason I object to it is the whole Christian/God calling it "perversion" thing, along with a whole bunch of random stuff that made no sense at the time. The only thing interesting to me about that is that many of these laws that previously made no sense have no been decidedly the best way to go regarding growing crops and breeding (Most obvious example, you know the whole "Don't marry your close relatives" thing? Didn't really make sense at the time, but now we know about genetic inbreeding and stuff) and I hear about other such cases of laws that made no sense all of a sudden making total sense quite a bit.

My point being, there's could easily be some aspect of it that we're just not seeing yet, that may only become apparent later, but until then-

Until then, here's my other view. My view based on soley my morals, but with no religious attatchments (if that's possible). Why not? It's NOT fair, all human beings are just conciousness contained within bodies (a concept I find entertaining. I don't know why. Just the fact that we live in such a crazy universe, where you are in a body, and you can only experience whatever your body experiences, and to go somewhere, you have to move this body. Nevermind. It's just me), but yeah, so we're conciousness, and so why does it matter what sex the body that contains the conciousness is? You're supposed to love people for what's on the inside, not out, so why would something as trivial as gender play such a big role? I have a few gay friends, and we get along fine, cause I don't really see a problem with it.

My final conclusion being, while I'm not particularly against it, I'm not going to advocate/encourage/support it.

Kinda a lame conclusion, but eh.  
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JohnMoore



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« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2006, 09:32:28 PM »

I'm not going to be gay, ever.  That's pretty much my view on it.  I also believe homosexuality IS a choice, and not a 'gene' thing.

Those are the only solid facts I have.   From there, it is merely personal observation of the statistic that says that becoming a homosexual cuts an average of 30 years off of your lifespan.  It's currently just plain unhealthy.  I also believe pornography is wrong.  Certain people here will disagree with that.

It's part of my religious view, and that's all the ground I have for my belief.  I'm not about to burn a homosexual at the stake, and I would be extremely worried if anybody did think such a course of action were a good idea.

I also think that some extreme homosexuals are the most violent people in the world.  Firebombing the homes of pastors, (Maclhaney, San Fransisco), and coming into churches merely to boo and to hiss at pastors that have done nothing wrong but preach out of the codebook of their religion.  I also see extremist Muslims as some of the most violent people in the world, extremist catholics as the most violent people in the world, and extremist baptists (hehe) to be the most violent people in the world.  There are violent people in every group, so I hate to judge the entire lot by the twisted few, but I haven't yet run into a homosexual in the real world that was a producer in America.

Of course, I'm in Texas.  What would I know?

At any rate, really not for debating right now, but I thought I'd throw out my experience so everyone would know where I stood/was coming from.

L8r!

~ John.


EDIT:  For the record, I realize making this post was really stupid.  I apologize in advance, because I really don't want to argue.  But if it comes to that, whatever.  Yeah, this was pretty stupid.   :bangHead!:

 :peace:  
« Last Edit: March 22, 2006, 09:34:07 PM by JohnMoore » Logged

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Mrdodobird

« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2006, 09:40:59 PM »

Hehe. I'll ignore it if you will Cheesy
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Fig



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« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2006, 10:10:41 PM »

John, for the sake of argument (not arguing) can you provide proof for any of those things using non-religious/biased sources?
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Rico



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« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2006, 10:42:09 PM »

Quote
I'm not going to be gay, ever.

Hehe... Good opening line.

Quote
... it is merely personal observation of the statistic that says that becoming a homosexual cuts an average of 30 years off of your lifespan.  It's currently just plain unhealthy.

I have no idea where you're coming from with this.  How would being gay possibly make you live a shorter life?  The only thing I can possibly think of is that those statistics are a bit old, and are probably still accounting for the AIDS boom in the 80's and 90's.  Maybe the average hasn't fully recovered from that yet.  That's the ONLY thing that would possibly make any sense to me.

Even if that's the case, though, you have to be careful no matter who you are.  The only reason AIDS was so prevalent among the gay community is because before it existed, there wasn't as much of a need to wear condoms.  I think the majority of people who wear a condom every time are younger people in hetero relationships who are more scared of pregnancy than STDs.  This, combined with the fact that anal sex is the easiest way to contract HIV, makes for a pretty nasty outcome.

Do you have an alternate explanation for these statistics?

Quote
...coming into churches merely to boo and to hiss at pastors that have done nothing wrong but preach out of the codebook of their religion.

You don't think that's a reaction to the church's open anti-homosexual stance?  What do you do when the codebook of a religion says that no matter what you do in your lifetime, you're bad and are going to hell?

Quote
I haven't yet run into a homosexual in the real world that was a producer in America.

I've run into a couple gay producers... But seriously, what does that mean?

Quote
For the record, I realize making this post was really stupid.  I apologize in advance, because I really don't want to argue.  But if it comes to that, whatever.  Yeah, this was pretty stupid.   :bangHead!:

Relax, man.  We're all friends here.  The point of this thread is to try and understand where it is you're coming from, because at this point I don't have the slightest clue.  At the end of this, I'm sure we'll still disagree, but we'll both have a better understanding of why the other one believes what they do.

In that regard, do you have any questions about why I think homosexuality is fine?  Is there any part of my beliefs that you see obvious holes in?  Point them out, that way I'll be able to explain them.


- Rico
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We're doing fine on the One and Nine line.
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Blah, blah, blah... Yorksnob.
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FCRabbath

« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2006, 10:43:41 PM »

Quote
John, for the sake of argument (not arguing) can you provide proof for any of those things using non-religious/biased sources?
sounds like your biased, are you gay? Figgy?
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Fig



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« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2006, 10:46:06 PM »

For all intents and purposes, I'm straight. I have bi tendecies often, though, and can't acknowledge my sexual orintation without that addendum.
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FCRabbath

« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2006, 10:48:14 PM »

I remember reading somewhere in an article that a scientific study showed that homosexuals have an imbalance of somehting in their brains. Not really sure if that relates, i'll look online.
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djr33

« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2006, 10:48:57 PM »

Quote
I also believe homosexuality IS a choice, and not a 'gene' thing.
John, blonde or brunette?

Tall or short?

Curvy or skinny?

Blue eyes or brown?

...Male or female?

Ah, what's your choice today?

Wink


(In case it's unclear to anyone, I AM using counterexmaple, not proving the above quote.)


EDIT:
FCR, you gotta be careful when using the word imbalance to talk about someone with a different set of beliefs/feelings than you. An imbalance means there's something wrong with it. Perhaps a 'different balance' would be more appropriate Wink
But... you do seem to be saying the same thing I am.

I'm quite straight (that's known on the boards well enough), but I also like to know sources. ^_^

Plus, John, I truly don't see it being a 'gene' either... if it were, then evolution would have driven it from society right from the first time creatures reproduced. Now, you've already agreed in at least microevolution, so this should apply.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2006, 10:54:25 PM by djr33 » Logged
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FCRabbath

« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2006, 10:53:57 PM »

Quote
Quote
I also believe homosexuality IS a choice, and not a 'gene' thing.
John, blonde or brunette?

Tall or short?

Curvy or skinny?

Blue eyes or brown?

...Male or female?

Ah, what's your choice today?

Wink


(In case it's unclear to anyone, I AM using counterexmaple, not proving the above quote.)


EDIT:
FCR, you gotta be careful when using the word imbalance to talk about someone with a different set of beliefs/feelings than you. An imbalance means there's something wrong with it. Perhaps a 'different balance' would be more appropriate Wink
But... you do seem to be saying the same thing I am.

Plus, John, I truly don't see it being a 'gene' either... if it were, then evolution would have driven it from society right from the first time creatures reproduced. Now, you've already agreed in at least microevolution, so this should apply.
Dan, i didn't SAY that, i just told you what i READ.
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djr33

« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2006, 10:55:31 PM »

I'm not saying you support it, but just that while I am kinda arguing against it, that I do agree with the main point. If you mean the word itself, and you took it as a direct quote, then you can redirect my comment as a warning to all and to the publishers/writers of the article.
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CramerBH

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« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2006, 10:56:25 PM »

It wouldn't be a different balance, per se. It would be a higher or lower concentration of said chemical in the brain. Either way, that is not something that can be chosen. I can't choose what the concentration of that chemical is in my head as much as I can choose how much estrogen I'll have in my system. Stimuli aside, that's not a choice.

I'm pretty much bi. I like the womens, a lot. But there are times when I do find men attractive. Only one comes to mind that any of you would know of by name, so it shall remain un-named.

In the statictical sense...100:1 women to men that I have an affection towards.


Homosexual rights need to be ratified. That is all i need to say on this subject. let people believe what they want, but in no way let it impeed on someone else's rights.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2006, 11:00:16 PM by CramerBH » Logged

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FCRabbath

« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2006, 10:58:01 PM »

"Hormones might play a part in prenatal brain development and hence in sexual orientation. Female rats exposed to androgens and neonatally castrated male rats both exhibit sexual behaviour characteristic of the opposite sex.[9,10] Is the fetal rat's brain being hormonally programmed? Could the same sort of thing occur in human foetuses who later show homosexual tendencies? There are limits in extrapolating these rodent studies to man. Sexual behaviour in rats is under rigid hormonal control; human sex is not reflex but complex and conscious behaviour. The prenatal hormone theory doesn't explain the complexity and variability of the human sexual response with changes of erotic fantasies, modes of sexual expression and even sexual orientation over time. If the prenatal hormone hypothesis were correct, we would find a higher incidence of abnormal gonadal structure or function in homosexuals. We would also find a higher proportion of homosexuals with androgen level disorders. Extensive reviews of the literature suggest that this is not the case.[11,12] For example, there is no evidence that children resulting from hormonally treated pregnancies develop homosexual tendencies.[13]"

from this stie. http://www.cmf.org.uk/literature/content.a...=article&id=630

Well my memory was wrong.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2006, 10:59:09 PM by FCRabbath » Logged
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FCRabbath

« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2006, 10:59:53 PM »

Quote
I'm pretty much bi. I like the womens, a lot. But there are times when I do find men attractive. Only one comes to mind that any of you would know of by name, so it shall remain un-named.

In the statictical sense...100:1 women to men that I have an affection towards.


Homosexual rights need to be ratified. That is all i need to say on this subject. let people believe what they want, but in no way let it impeed on someone else's rights.
are you jewish?
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