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Poll
Question: Did they live up to your expectations? (only vote after seeing them if you plan to)
they're awesome! - 7 (38.9%)
could have been better, but worth it - 7 (38.9%)
they're ok... - 2 (11.1%)
SE is better! - 0 (0%)
OE is better! - 2 (11.1%)
OE and SE are better! - 0 (0%)
dont care... - 0 (0%)
dont plan on seeing them - 0 (0%)
Total Voters: 13

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Author Topic: The OT on DVD  (Read 7457 times)
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ObiJuan2080

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« on: February 09, 2005, 06:58:15 AM »

So true.
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M Joel



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« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2005, 02:13:21 PM »

Quote
So true.
Are  you  agreeing  with JediMasterMonkey, or  Djr33?
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ObiJuan2080

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« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2005, 12:02:33 PM »

I'm agreeing with Jedimastermonkey
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djr33

« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2005, 07:05:07 PM »

i dont get it then.... when anakin joins the light side again (or he wouldnt even become the ghost) then why isnt he at THAT point depicted. in a way, he is destined to become evil at the age of e3. so why would he go back to where he was on the verge of turning dark rather than when he had overcome the dark side?
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Darth_Brad

« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2005, 08:36:43 PM »

***POSSIBLE ROTS SPOILERS***


After ROTS, or at least 3/4 through,  the Jedi Knight Anakin Skywalker is no more...he never lived to be the 50 year-old Shaw that we see in the O-OT, so why would he take that form?  He is essentially an entirely different person by that time, and I hardly believe that a death-bed "you were right" would give him hair, jedi robes, and limbs.  
Sure he was redeemed, that is why he stood with Yoda and Obi...but why would he remanifest in a body he never had?  It seems right to me that he would take a form of himself before he was manipulated and "made" into Vader.  

Even during The Duel he is fighting Obi-Wan because he was decieved into thinking there was a way to save Padme.  None of what we see before the helm will be a purely evil Anakin...his intentions are good (for love) during a majority of the film.  
Just because he has long hair in ROTJ doesn't mean he is bad...what we see is Anakin at the height of his Jedi "career".  So unless you want an arm/legless head and torso at the end of ROTJ, this seems perfectly logical to me.  He shows up in a form while he was strongest in the lightside, before his freedom was taken away.  I know this is how I would want to be remember.  

I still think it was too drastic of a change to make, but alot will be explained in this film...and watching the saga in order for future generations should be much more powerful.  It is just hard to have watched it one way all your life and welcome it.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2005, 08:38:03 PM by Darth_Brad » Logged
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ObiJuan2080

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« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2005, 11:06:53 AM »

Quote
"Just because he has long hair in ROTJ doesn't mean he is bad...what we see is Anakin at the height of his Jedi "career". So unless you want an arm/legless head and torso at the end of ROTJ, this seems perfectly logical to me. He shows up in a form while he was strongest in the lightside, before his freedom was taken away. I know this is how I would want to be remember."
[/i]
EXACTLY!!!!!
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JustinZ

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« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2005, 12:08:16 PM »

I understand the reasons fans have given for adding Hayden to ROTJ.  The main problem, from my point of view, is that the movie itself doesn't tell us the reasons.  The movie doesn't even clearly identify who the new person is.  People who loved the OT but haven't seen AOTC will have no idea who that person is.[1]  For those people, the ending now makes no sense.  We're hardcore fans of Star Wars, so can guess at some of the reasons and come up with theories.  But the fact remains that Lucas hasn't yet told us the reasons.  Presumably Episode III will give a reason, but it's just bad storytelling to have a new person appear at the very of the story with no explanation whatsoever.  That's why it would have been better to leave it alone.

Justin



 
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Darth_Brad

« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2005, 01:17:49 PM »

I understand, but this saga should be watched as a whole, and George needs to do what's best for the entire body of work, not just for the OT or PT...he can't worry about people who don't watch all 6.  Since future generations will most-likely watch them all, this change is a great thing.  Unless they casted an Anakin that looked just like Shaw, the orginal way would seem even stranger to people later on.

I know these films are sacred, and I too cringed when I saw the Hayden addition...but for people who will watch 1-6 (like they should) this gap was one of the most important to bridge.  
Regardless of the reasoning behind his age and all, it comes down to the fact that you can get away with having the crispy version under the mask.  But when you clean him all up and try and pass him off as the same guy you watched 2-3 nights ago in the PT, it is just too extreme to buy.  Thinking of the future of the saga, this is a great move.  And I am sure he knew that it would not go over well with us; those who grew up with it.  But in the long-run it will be a good thing IMO.  
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ObiJuan2080

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« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2005, 01:39:09 PM »

*hugs Brad*
You do understand.
*cries*
















*lets go*
....as you were.
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Darth_Brad

« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2005, 02:32:22 PM »

That was awkward...  :wimper:


 Tongue  
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JustinZ

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« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2005, 02:37:38 PM »

Quote
I understand, but this saga should be watched as a whole, and George needs to do what's best for the entire body of work, not just for the OT or PT...he can't worry about people who don't watch all 6.
I guess here's where we disagree.  I think the OT should be able to stand on its own.  You should not be required to have seen the PT in order for the OT to make sense.  Even if you plan to watch all 6, they should make sense if you watch them in the order they were released (After all, they made sense in this order in the 70's and 80's; why should they stop now?)  I would also argue that there are advantages to watching them in this order.  Ideally, the films should work both as a set of two trilogies and as a 6-part saga.

Justin
 
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rogue_09

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« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2005, 02:43:15 PM »

I completely agree with Justin's point from a storytelling point of view.


But I also look at it from the story itself.  Just because Anakin was supposedly at his "goodest" back in Ep 3 times, doesn't mean he should look that way in spirit.  Heck, defeating the Emporer sounds pretty damn good to me.  

Putting Hayden there completely undermines Anakin's redemption, since it makes it seem like even though he did return to the light side, it doesn't matter since he was only good back in the day.  The way I see it, Lucas only put him there as a marketing ploy for the PT.
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Darth_Brad

« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2005, 03:10:39 PM »

Yeah, I wasn't even considering the order, I was just referring to those that only saw the first 3...we can't sacrifice continuity of the entire saga just for them.

I think the OT should be watched first too.  But if you do it that way you might say, "Hmmm, that doesn't quite look like the same guy I just saw in the Vader suit".  But it could still be easily concluded that it was a younger form of himself...and that the obvious battle damage could be the reason for the visual difference.

If you watch the PT first you will see Anakin grow up right off the bat, and then get to the orginal end scene of ROTJ and have no clue what was going on.  "That looks nothing like the guy I saw enter the suit."  
It is obviously supposed to be Anakin as the ghost, but why would he look nothing like the Jedi they knew from the 3 films they watched first.  So in IMO, adding in Hayden as the ghost is going to cause conflicts and confusion, and until they add him to the 'helmet remove' scene, that will never change.  Tongue   But at least, in the way it stands, it will be easier to draw a reasonable conclusion as to who he is, IMO.  But leaving Shaw in pretty much screws a SW n00b no matter how they are watched.

But like I said, removing all of Shaw's scenes is the only way to entirely fix the problem.  But with Hayden added in, there are at least more pieces of the puzzle available to figure it all out.  

Who knows though, I am confusing myself by just typing this.  Smiley  But, I just think it will benefit future generations more...but regardless of how that scene is or in which order you watch them, it is going to take an educated audience.  It's just the drawback of a 20+ year later prequel...but this at least lessens it a little IMO.


EDIT

I know what you are saying rogue...it just depends on how you view him once he becomes Vader.  I see him as a completely different person, using "person" lightly.  The younger version is just him at his pinnacle as a Jedi, so why not comeback while still being Anakin Skywalker rather than a machine and pawn of Sidious.  And this dosen't undermine his redemption since he wouldn't have become one with the force otherwise.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2005, 03:20:36 PM by Darth_Brad » Logged
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djr33

« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2005, 10:39:54 PM »

heh, look at this issue from the other side...

think about sabastian shaw's feelings when he found out he was to be replaced by hayden christenson... what an insult! Cheesy


edit: on second thought... i have another reason not to change it. the special editions/dvds really fixed some of the errors lucas had had due to lack of fx... ie matte lines, etc.
also, scenes like ANH jabba and naboo in rotj were added for continuity and because the needed fx existed.

BUT... if lucas has wanted the spirit of anakin to be 20 years old, then why would he not have had a 20 year old actor do it originally?
i'd have a lot less of a problem if THAT was who was replaced.

the point is... he didnt belong originally, so why does he now? and as justin said... leave it be if you're not gonna explain it.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2005, 10:42:37 PM by djr33 » Logged
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Darth_Brad

« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2005, 11:38:01 PM »

There are plenty of reasons why he was younger as a ghost, as I touched on above....and wait until after May 19 before saying it was not explained.
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